CARE Cap To Stymie Exploitation By Pot Growers – April 26, 2012

Thursday, April 26, 2012

Daniel Mintz

Eye Correspondent

CALIFORNIA – The enrollment of some indoor marijuana growers in low-income energy assistance programs is being targeted by a state bill and county supervisors are supporting it.

Senate Bill 1207 is being considered by state lawmakers and it puts a cap on electricity and gas usage under the California Alternate Rates for Energy (CARE) program, which allows power price discounts for income-eligible customers.

The bill would allow the Pacific Gas and Electric Company (PG&E) and other companies to require proof of income if power usage exceeds 400 percent of baseline consumption. If use exceeds 600 percent of the baseline for over 120 days, participants in the program can be cut from it.

When County Administrative Officer Phillip Smith-Hanes briefed the Board of Supervisors on the bill at its April 17 meeting, he recalled last fall’s presentation by Peter Lehman of the Schatz Energy Lab at Humboldt State. Lehman had talked about “the spike in energy usage in Humboldt County that appears to be related to indoor growing of marijuana,” Smith-Hanes said.

Lehman had also told supervisors that PG&E inadvertently enables the power glut by enrolling growers in the CARE program. He had suggested that PG&E establish a cap on the amount of power customers in the program can use.

Based on what they’d heard, supervisors supported previous state legislation on capping CARE energy use – but it used a different technique, based on a kilowatt per hour standard.

Allison Talbot, PG&E’s government relations staffer, said that although the 400 percent of baseline standard “seems a little large,” her company is backing the bill.

“The problem we face, as you know, is that under the current enrollment and verification system, fraud is easy to accomplish and current laws and regulations tie our hands from those found to be abusing the intent of the program,” she told supervisors.

PG&E wants to continue access to the program for customers who are eligible, Talbot added, but also wants to “address the loopholes that that easy access creates.”

The variety of reasons for higher power use was explored by Supervisor Clif Clendenen, who asked Talbot how the 400 percent standard was determined. Talbot said a PG&E specialist has offered to give a presentation on it and supervisors said they’d like to hear it.

Clendenen said age and health status can affect power usage. “I know, after my dad had had a stroke, how hot he had to have the house, even with blankets on his lap,” he told Talbot. “There’s a lot of energy used to take care of somebody in a medical situation.”

Recalling Lehman’s presentation, Supervisor Mark Lovelace said that “while 400 percent may seem high compared to the baseline, the amount by which some of these grow houses are exceeding that is phenomenal – we’re talking not just four times, but 30, 50, 100 times.”

Still, Lovelace said he’s “curious to hear a little bit more explanation on that number.”

Supervisors unanimously agreed to write a letter of support for SB 1207.

 

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139 Responses to “CARE Cap To Stymie Exploitation By Pot Growers – April 26, 2012”

  1. Joseph Tolman

    Kevin Hoover – The term 'cottage industry' comes to mind. Calling a dog a factory doesn't make it a factory, just like calling a house a factory doesn't make it a factory. Use a little common sense and tell me why factories aren't allowed in residential areas. Heavy pollution, heavy road use, danger to nearby houses and businesses, those are reasons not to allow a factory in a neighborhood. Would any of those things come with a grow house? No, sorry.

    #65876
  2. Joseph Tolman

    Kevin Hoover – The term 'cottage industry' comes to mind. Calling a dog a factory doesn't make it a factory, just like calling a house a factory doesn't make it a factory. Use a little common sense and tell me why factories aren't allowed in residential areas. Heavy pollution, heavy road use, danger to nearby houses and businesses, those are reasons not to allow a factory in a neighborhood. Would any of those things come with a grow house? No, sorry.

    #66299
  3. Joseph Tolman

    Kevin Hoover – The term 'cottage industry' comes to mind. Calling a dog a factory doesn't make it a factory, just like calling a house a factory doesn't make it a factory. Use a little common sense and tell me why factories aren't allowed in residential areas. Heavy pollution, heavy road use, danger to nearby houses and businesses, those are reasons not to allow a factory in a neighborhood. Would any of those things come with a grow house? No, sorry.

    #66473
  4. Kevin Hoover

    "Heavy pollution, heavy road use, danger to nearby houses and businesses."
    Surely you jest. All of those problems and more are associated with grow houses. My sense is that you are new to this situation. I can't begin to catch you up on all the issues, but here's a primer:
    Pollution: the bigger ones use as much as 30 times the electricity of homes which house people, totally screwing up Arcata's greenhouse gas reduction goals. And the trim ends up in Liscom Slough. These problems come up all the time at City meetings.
    Road use: ask the neighbors how much they enjoy all the cars and trucks that show up at night, idling for a few minutes with lots of doors slamming, then leave in a roar.
    Danger to nearby houses: there have been innumerable fires and even explosions from the butane hash-making.
    And then there are the pit bulls, the firearms, the threats, the other drugs… Joseph, these are all things that neighbors complained about during Arcata's extensive public hearings on the topic a few years back.

    #63076
  5. Kevin Hoover

    "Heavy pollution, heavy road use, danger to nearby houses and businesses."
    Surely you jest. All of those problems and more are associated with grow houses. My sense is that you are new to this situation. I can't begin to catch you up on all the issues, but here's a primer:
    Pollution: the bigger ones use as much as 30 times the electricity of homes which house people, totally screwing up Arcata's greenhouse gas reduction goals. And the trim ends up in Liscom Slough. These problems come up all the time at City meetings.
    Road use: ask the neighbors how much they enjoy all the cars and trucks that show up at night, idling for a few minutes with lots of doors slamming, then leave in a roar.
    Danger to nearby houses: there have been innumerable fires and even explosions from the butane hash-making.
    And then there are the pit bulls, the firearms, the threats, the other drugs… Joseph, these are all things that neighbors complained about during Arcata's extensive public hearings on the topic a few years back.

    #62880
  6. Kevin Hoover

    "Heavy pollution, heavy road use, danger to nearby houses and businesses."
    Surely you jest. All of those problems and more are associated with grow houses. My sense is that you are new to this situation. I can't begin to catch you up on all the issues, but here's a primer:
    Pollution: the bigger ones use as much as 30 times the electricity of homes which house people, totally screwing up Arcata's greenhouse gas reduction goals. And the trim ends up in Liscom Slough. These problems come up all the time at City meetings.
    Road use: ask the neighbors how much they enjoy all the cars and trucks that show up at night, idling for a few minutes with lots of doors slamming, then leave in a roar.
    Danger to nearby houses: there have been innumerable fires and even explosions from the butane hash-making.
    And then there are the pit bulls, the firearms, the threats, the other drugs… Joseph, these are all things that neighbors complained about during Arcata's extensive public hearings on the topic a few years back.

    #63375
  7. Kevin Hoover

    "Heavy pollution, heavy road use, danger to nearby houses and businesses."
    Surely you jest. All of those problems and more are associated with grow houses. My sense is that you are new to this situation. I can't begin to catch you up on all the issues, but here's a primer:
    Pollution: the bigger ones use as much as 30 times the electricity of homes which house people, totally screwing up Arcata's greenhouse gas reduction goals. And the trim ends up in Liscom Slough. These problems come up all the time at City meetings.
    Road use: ask the neighbors how much they enjoy all the cars and trucks that show up at night, idling for a few minutes with lots of doors slamming, then leave in a roar.
    Danger to nearby houses: there have been innumerable fires and even explosions from the butane hash-making.
    And then there are the pit bulls, the firearms, the threats, the other drugs… Joseph, these are all things that neighbors complained about during Arcata's extensive public hearings on the topic a few years back.

    #65877
  8. Kevin Hoover

    "Heavy pollution, heavy road use, danger to nearby houses and businesses."
    Surely you jest. All of those problems and more are associated with grow houses. My sense is that you are new to this situation. I can't begin to catch you up on all the issues, but here's a primer:
    Pollution: the bigger ones use as much as 30 times the electricity of homes which house people, totally screwing up Arcata's greenhouse gas reduction goals. And the trim ends up in Liscom Slough. These problems come up all the time at City meetings.
    Road use: ask the neighbors how much they enjoy all the cars and trucks that show up at night, idling for a few minutes with lots of doors slamming, then leave in a roar.
    Danger to nearby houses: there have been innumerable fires and even explosions from the butane hash-making.
    And then there are the pit bulls, the firearms, the threats, the other drugs… Joseph, these are all things that neighbors complained about during Arcata's extensive public hearings on the topic a few years back.

    #66300
  9. Kevin Hoover

    "Heavy pollution, heavy road use, danger to nearby houses and businesses."
    Surely you jest. All of those problems and more are associated with grow houses. My sense is that you are new to this situation. I can't begin to catch you up on all the issues, but here's a primer:
    Pollution: the bigger ones use as much as 30 times the electricity of homes which house people, totally screwing up Arcata's greenhouse gas reduction goals. And the trim ends up in Liscom Slough. These problems come up all the time at City meetings.
    Road use: ask the neighbors how much they enjoy all the cars and trucks that show up at night, idling for a few minutes with lots of doors slamming, then leave in a roar.
    Danger to nearby houses: there have been innumerable fires and even explosions from the butane hash-making.
    And then there are the pit bulls, the firearms, the threats, the other drugs… Joseph, these are all things that neighbors complained about during Arcata's extensive public hearings on the topic a few years back.

    #66474
  10. Oh come on kevin, leave the poor pit bull breed out of it. Their behavior is just a result of their training. I'd replace that with "grow dogs", even if they are almost always pit bulls.

    As far as the danger to nearby houses, I'd stick to the fire risk due to the seemingly mandatory electrical code violations, and the statistically greater risk of theft and vandalism near a grow house. Most hash seems to be bubble-bag method (it tastes better and is much easier to make) but there are indeed some idiot butane-extractors out there.

    #63077
  11. Oh come on kevin, leave the poor pit bull breed out of it. Their behavior is just a result of their training. I'd replace that with "grow dogs", even if they are almost always pit bulls.

    As far as the danger to nearby houses, I'd stick to the fire risk due to the seemingly mandatory electrical code violations, and the statistically greater risk of theft and vandalism near a grow house. Most hash seems to be bubble-bag method (it tastes better and is much easier to make) but there are indeed some idiot butane-extractors out there.

    #62881
  12. Oh come on kevin, leave the poor pit bull breed out of it. Their behavior is just a result of their training. I'd replace that with "grow dogs", even if they are almost always pit bulls.

    As far as the danger to nearby houses, I'd stick to the fire risk due to the seemingly mandatory electrical code violations, and the statistically greater risk of theft and vandalism near a grow house. Most hash seems to be bubble-bag method (it tastes better and is much easier to make) but there are indeed some idiot butane-extractors out there.

    #63376
  13. Oh come on kevin, leave the poor pit bull breed out of it. Their behavior is just a result of their training. I'd replace that with "grow dogs", even if they are almost always pit bulls.

    As far as the danger to nearby houses, I'd stick to the fire risk due to the seemingly mandatory electrical code violations, and the statistically greater risk of theft and vandalism near a grow house. Most hash seems to be bubble-bag method (it tastes better and is much easier to make) but there are indeed some idiot butane-extractors out there.

    #65878
  14. Oh come on kevin, leave the poor pit bull breed out of it. Their behavior is just a result of their training. I'd replace that with "grow dogs", even if they are almost always pit bulls.

    As far as the danger to nearby houses, I'd stick to the fire risk due to the seemingly mandatory electrical code violations, and the statistically greater risk of theft and vandalism near a grow house. Most hash seems to be bubble-bag method (it tastes better and is much easier to make) but there are indeed some idiot butane-extractors out there.

    #66301
  15. Oh come on kevin, leave the poor pit bull breed out of it. Their behavior is just a result of their training. I'd replace that with "grow dogs", even if they are almost always pit bulls.

    As far as the danger to nearby houses, I'd stick to the fire risk due to the seemingly mandatory electrical code violations, and the statistically greater risk of theft and vandalism near a grow house. Most hash seems to be bubble-bag method (it tastes better and is much easier to make) but there are indeed some idiot butane-extractors out there.

    #66475
  16. In addition, the road use Kevin mentioned are all associated with a marijuana sales facility, and are not necessarily qualities of a grow house. Some houses take all of their product and sell it to a dispensary, or in bulk to a black market buyer. Those houses still pollute, have greater risk of fire, and have increased theft incentive. If neighbors don't want these things around their house, especially if those neighbors have been around for 40+ years, are they then "prohibitionists" trying to "force their way onto others", or are they concerned citizens trying to protect their house and neighborhood from the dangers of a grow house?

    In addition, by grow house, I mean a house being rented to specifically grow weed in as the tenant's source of income. I'm sure people don't really care about a single-light closet grow so that someone can smoke their own weed. Those grows would not even show up on PGE's radar for CARE ineligibility, and can often be done without any sort of code violations or risk.

    #63078
  17. In addition, the road use Kevin mentioned are all associated with a marijuana sales facility, and are not necessarily qualities of a grow house. Some houses take all of their product and sell it to a dispensary, or in bulk to a black market buyer. Those houses still pollute, have greater risk of fire, and have increased theft incentive. If neighbors don't want these things around their house, especially if those neighbors have been around for 40+ years, are they then "prohibitionists" trying to "force their way onto others", or are they concerned citizens trying to protect their house and neighborhood from the dangers of a grow house?

    In addition, by grow house, I mean a house being rented to specifically grow weed in as the tenant's source of income. I'm sure people don't really care about a single-light closet grow so that someone can smoke their own weed. Those grows would not even show up on PGE's radar for CARE ineligibility, and can often be done without any sort of code violations or risk.

    #62882
  18. In addition, the road use Kevin mentioned are all associated with a marijuana sales facility, and are not necessarily qualities of a grow house. Some houses take all of their product and sell it to a dispensary, or in bulk to a black market buyer. Those houses still pollute, have greater risk of fire, and have increased theft incentive. If neighbors don't want these things around their house, especially if those neighbors have been around for 40+ years, are they then "prohibitionists" trying to "force their way onto others", or are they concerned citizens trying to protect their house and neighborhood from the dangers of a grow house?

    In addition, by grow house, I mean a house being rented to specifically grow weed in as the tenant's source of income. I'm sure people don't really care about a single-light closet grow so that someone can smoke their own weed. Those grows would not even show up on PGE's radar for CARE ineligibility, and can often be done without any sort of code violations or risk.

    #63377
  19. In addition, the road use Kevin mentioned are all associated with a marijuana sales facility, and are not necessarily qualities of a grow house. Some houses take all of their product and sell it to a dispensary, or in bulk to a black market buyer. Those houses still pollute, have greater risk of fire, and have increased theft incentive. If neighbors don't want these things around their house, especially if those neighbors have been around for 40+ years, are they then "prohibitionists" trying to "force their way onto others", or are they concerned citizens trying to protect their house and neighborhood from the dangers of a grow house?

    In addition, by grow house, I mean a house being rented to specifically grow weed in as the tenant's source of income. I'm sure people don't really care about a single-light closet grow so that someone can smoke their own weed. Those grows would not even show up on PGE's radar for CARE ineligibility, and can often be done without any sort of code violations or risk.

    #65879
  20. In addition, the road use Kevin mentioned are all associated with a marijuana sales facility, and are not necessarily qualities of a grow house. Some houses take all of their product and sell it to a dispensary, or in bulk to a black market buyer. Those houses still pollute, have greater risk of fire, and have increased theft incentive. If neighbors don't want these things around their house, especially if those neighbors have been around for 40+ years, are they then "prohibitionists" trying to "force their way onto others", or are they concerned citizens trying to protect their house and neighborhood from the dangers of a grow house?

    In addition, by grow house, I mean a house being rented to specifically grow weed in as the tenant's source of income. I'm sure people don't really care about a single-light closet grow so that someone can smoke their own weed. Those grows would not even show up on PGE's radar for CARE ineligibility, and can often be done without any sort of code violations or risk.

    #66302
  21. In addition, the road use Kevin mentioned are all associated with a marijuana sales facility, and are not necessarily qualities of a grow house. Some houses take all of their product and sell it to a dispensary, or in bulk to a black market buyer. Those houses still pollute, have greater risk of fire, and have increased theft incentive. If neighbors don't want these things around their house, especially if those neighbors have been around for 40+ years, are they then "prohibitionists" trying to "force their way onto others", or are they concerned citizens trying to protect their house and neighborhood from the dangers of a grow house?

    In addition, by grow house, I mean a house being rented to specifically grow weed in as the tenant's source of income. I'm sure people don't really care about a single-light closet grow so that someone can smoke their own weed. Those grows would not even show up on PGE's radar for CARE ineligibility, and can often be done without any sort of code violations or risk.

    #66476
  22. Kevin Hoover

    Up until 10 years or so ago, every Arcata neighborhood had a grow house or two, and no one particularly minded. Then they started metastasizing, people complained and the sluggish wheels of government started turning.

    As far as MJ sales facilities vs. grow houses, the issues I cited were repeatedly mentioned in testimony by the actual neighbors of these places while the Planning Commission and City Council were formulating a policy in response. Those and other problems. You can't just plant a manufacturing facility in a residential neighborhood without conflicts developing. That's why we have zoning.

    #63079
  23. Kevin Hoover

    Up until 10 years or so ago, every Arcata neighborhood had a grow house or two, and no one particularly minded. Then they started metastasizing, people complained and the sluggish wheels of government started turning.

    As far as MJ sales facilities vs. grow houses, the issues I cited were repeatedly mentioned in testimony by the actual neighbors of these places while the Planning Commission and City Council were formulating a policy in response. Those and other problems. You can't just plant a manufacturing facility in a residential neighborhood without conflicts developing. That's why we have zoning.

    #62884
  24. Kevin Hoover

    Up until 10 years or so ago, every Arcata neighborhood had a grow house or two, and no one particularly minded. Then they started metastasizing, people complained and the sluggish wheels of government started turning.

    As far as MJ sales facilities vs. grow houses, the issues I cited were repeatedly mentioned in testimony by the actual neighbors of these places while the Planning Commission and City Council were formulating a policy in response. Those and other problems. You can't just plant a manufacturing facility in a residential neighborhood without conflicts developing. That's why we have zoning.

    #63378
  25. Kevin Hoover

    Up until 10 years or so ago, every Arcata neighborhood had a grow house or two, and no one particularly minded. Then they started metastasizing, people complained and the sluggish wheels of government started turning.

    As far as MJ sales facilities vs. grow houses, the issues I cited were repeatedly mentioned in testimony by the actual neighbors of these places while the Planning Commission and City Council were formulating a policy in response. Those and other problems. You can't just plant a manufacturing facility in a residential neighborhood without conflicts developing. That's why we have zoning.

    #65880
  26. Kevin Hoover

    Up until 10 years or so ago, every Arcata neighborhood had a grow house or two, and no one particularly minded. Then they started metastasizing, people complained and the sluggish wheels of government started turning.

    As far as MJ sales facilities vs. grow houses, the issues I cited were repeatedly mentioned in testimony by the actual neighbors of these places while the Planning Commission and City Council were formulating a policy in response. Those and other problems. You can't just plant a manufacturing facility in a residential neighborhood without conflicts developing. That's why we have zoning.

    #66303
  27. Kevin Hoover

    Up until 10 years or so ago, every Arcata neighborhood had a grow house or two, and no one particularly minded. Then they started metastasizing, people complained and the sluggish wheels of government started turning.

    As far as MJ sales facilities vs. grow houses, the issues I cited were repeatedly mentioned in testimony by the actual neighbors of these places while the Planning Commission and City Council were formulating a policy in response. Those and other problems. You can't just plant a manufacturing facility in a residential neighborhood without conflicts developing. That's why we have zoning.

    #66477
  28. Joseph Tolman

    Kevin Hoover – "Pollution: the bigger ones use as much as 30 times the electricity of homes which house people, totally screwing up Arcata's greenhouse gas reduction goals."

    Source? Also, when legal it can be grown outside for free :)

    "Road use: ask the neighbors how much they enjoy all the cars and trucks that show up at night, idling for a few minutes with lots of doors slamming, then leave in a roar."

    Funny, I thought we were talking about heavy road use, not traffic and pedestrians. The actual road subgrade has to be compacted and built to different specifications in industrial areas because they have HEAVY (weight) traffic that would quickly destroy urban roadways. Also, a constant flow of buyers isn't what people look for in a grow house.

    "Danger to nearby houses: there have been innumerable fires and even explosions from the butane hash-making.
    And then there are the pit bulls, the firearms, the threats, the other drugs… Joseph, these are all things that neighbors complained about during Arcata's extensive public hearings on the topic a few years back."

    Most of those could be cured by legalizing marijuana, the others already have laws on the books. Love thy neighbor! You know as well as I do, the majority of the complainers simply don't like the fact that marijuana exists, they've been brainwashed their whole lives and haven't had the courage to find out the truth for themselves. Our government lying constantly doesn't help. Until marijuana is legal the problems will persist.

    #63080
  29. Joseph Tolman

    Kevin Hoover – "Pollution: the bigger ones use as much as 30 times the electricity of homes which house people, totally screwing up Arcata's greenhouse gas reduction goals."

    Source? Also, when legal it can be grown outside for free :)

    "Road use: ask the neighbors how much they enjoy all the cars and trucks that show up at night, idling for a few minutes with lots of doors slamming, then leave in a roar."

    Funny, I thought we were talking about heavy road use, not traffic and pedestrians. The actual road subgrade has to be compacted and built to different specifications in industrial areas because they have HEAVY (weight) traffic that would quickly destroy urban roadways. Also, a constant flow of buyers isn't what people look for in a grow house.

    "Danger to nearby houses: there have been innumerable fires and even explosions from the butane hash-making.
    And then there are the pit bulls, the firearms, the threats, the other drugs… Joseph, these are all things that neighbors complained about during Arcata's extensive public hearings on the topic a few years back."

    Most of those could be cured by legalizing marijuana, the others already have laws on the books. Love thy neighbor! You know as well as I do, the majority of the complainers simply don't like the fact that marijuana exists, they've been brainwashed their whole lives and haven't had the courage to find out the truth for themselves. Our government lying constantly doesn't help. Until marijuana is legal the problems will persist.

    #62885
  30. Joseph Tolman

    Kevin Hoover – "Pollution: the bigger ones use as much as 30 times the electricity of homes which house people, totally screwing up Arcata's greenhouse gas reduction goals."

    Source? Also, when legal it can be grown outside for free :)

    "Road use: ask the neighbors how much they enjoy all the cars and trucks that show up at night, idling for a few minutes with lots of doors slamming, then leave in a roar."

    Funny, I thought we were talking about heavy road use, not traffic and pedestrians. The actual road subgrade has to be compacted and built to different specifications in industrial areas because they have HEAVY (weight) traffic that would quickly destroy urban roadways. Also, a constant flow of buyers isn't what people look for in a grow house.

    "Danger to nearby houses: there have been innumerable fires and even explosions from the butane hash-making.
    And then there are the pit bulls, the firearms, the threats, the other drugs… Joseph, these are all things that neighbors complained about during Arcata's extensive public hearings on the topic a few years back."

    Most of those could be cured by legalizing marijuana, the others already have laws on the books. Love thy neighbor! You know as well as I do, the majority of the complainers simply don't like the fact that marijuana exists, they've been brainwashed their whole lives and haven't had the courage to find out the truth for themselves. Our government lying constantly doesn't help. Until marijuana is legal the problems will persist.

    #63379
  31. Joseph Tolman

    Kevin Hoover – "Pollution: the bigger ones use as much as 30 times the electricity of homes which house people, totally screwing up Arcata's greenhouse gas reduction goals."

    Source? Also, when legal it can be grown outside for free :)

    "Road use: ask the neighbors how much they enjoy all the cars and trucks that show up at night, idling for a few minutes with lots of doors slamming, then leave in a roar."

    Funny, I thought we were talking about heavy road use, not traffic and pedestrians. The actual road subgrade has to be compacted and built to different specifications in industrial areas because they have HEAVY (weight) traffic that would quickly destroy urban roadways. Also, a constant flow of buyers isn't what people look for in a grow house.

    "Danger to nearby houses: there have been innumerable fires and even explosions from the butane hash-making.
    And then there are the pit bulls, the firearms, the threats, the other drugs… Joseph, these are all things that neighbors complained about during Arcata's extensive public hearings on the topic a few years back."

    Most of those could be cured by legalizing marijuana, the others already have laws on the books. Love thy neighbor! You know as well as I do, the majority of the complainers simply don't like the fact that marijuana exists, they've been brainwashed their whole lives and haven't had the courage to find out the truth for themselves. Our government lying constantly doesn't help. Until marijuana is legal the problems will persist.

    #65881
  32. Joseph Tolman

    Kevin Hoover – "Pollution: the bigger ones use as much as 30 times the electricity of homes which house people, totally screwing up Arcata's greenhouse gas reduction goals."

    Source? Also, when legal it can be grown outside for free :)

    "Road use: ask the neighbors how much they enjoy all the cars and trucks that show up at night, idling for a few minutes with lots of doors slamming, then leave in a roar."

    Funny, I thought we were talking about heavy road use, not traffic and pedestrians. The actual road subgrade has to be compacted and built to different specifications in industrial areas because they have HEAVY (weight) traffic that would quickly destroy urban roadways. Also, a constant flow of buyers isn't what people look for in a grow house.

    "Danger to nearby houses: there have been innumerable fires and even explosions from the butane hash-making.
    And then there are the pit bulls, the firearms, the threats, the other drugs… Joseph, these are all things that neighbors complained about during Arcata's extensive public hearings on the topic a few years back."

    Most of those could be cured by legalizing marijuana, the others already have laws on the books. Love thy neighbor! You know as well as I do, the majority of the complainers simply don't like the fact that marijuana exists, they've been brainwashed their whole lives and haven't had the courage to find out the truth for themselves. Our government lying constantly doesn't help. Until marijuana is legal the problems will persist.

    #66304
  33. Joseph Tolman

    Kevin Hoover – "Pollution: the bigger ones use as much as 30 times the electricity of homes which house people, totally screwing up Arcata's greenhouse gas reduction goals."

    Source? Also, when legal it can be grown outside for free :)

    "Road use: ask the neighbors how much they enjoy all the cars and trucks that show up at night, idling for a few minutes with lots of doors slamming, then leave in a roar."

    Funny, I thought we were talking about heavy road use, not traffic and pedestrians. The actual road subgrade has to be compacted and built to different specifications in industrial areas because they have HEAVY (weight) traffic that would quickly destroy urban roadways. Also, a constant flow of buyers isn't what people look for in a grow house.

    "Danger to nearby houses: there have been innumerable fires and even explosions from the butane hash-making.
    And then there are the pit bulls, the firearms, the threats, the other drugs… Joseph, these are all things that neighbors complained about during Arcata's extensive public hearings on the topic a few years back."

    Most of those could be cured by legalizing marijuana, the others already have laws on the books. Love thy neighbor! You know as well as I do, the majority of the complainers simply don't like the fact that marijuana exists, they've been brainwashed their whole lives and haven't had the courage to find out the truth for themselves. Our government lying constantly doesn't help. Until marijuana is legal the problems will persist.

    #66478
  34. Kevin Hoover

    " You know as well as I do, the majority of the complainers simply don't like the fact that marijuana exists."

    Having actually taken the time to to these neighbors throughout town, I can tell you with authority that you are 95 percent incorrect. The overwhelming majority, including me, are 215 supporters and wish for legalization.

    It fits your dumbed-down narrative to cast grow house opponents as prohibitionists. But unless you actually talk to people, you really have no way of knowing what they think.

    And in answer to my previous question, it appears impossible for you to simultaneously grasp the concepts that cannabis legalization is sensible and that industrial grow houses suck.

    " a constant flow of buyers isn't what people look for in a grow house" Uh-huh. What about the trimmers? What about the equipment and product being humped in and out? Your assertions are not grounded in any experiential reality. We live with this day in and day out.

    #62914
  35. Kevin Hoover

    " You know as well as I do, the majority of the complainers simply don't like the fact that marijuana exists."

    Having actually taken the time to to these neighbors throughout town, I can tell you with authority that you are 95 percent incorrect. The overwhelming majority, including me, are 215 supporters and wish for legalization.

    It fits your dumbed-down narrative to cast grow house opponents as prohibitionists. But unless you actually talk to people, you really have no way of knowing what they think.

    And in answer to my previous question, it appears impossible for you to simultaneously grasp the concepts that cannabis legalization is sensible and that industrial grow houses suck.

    " a constant flow of buyers isn't what people look for in a grow house" Uh-huh. What about the trimmers? What about the equipment and product being humped in and out? Your assertions are not grounded in any experiential reality. We live with this day in and day out.

    #63081
  36. Kevin Hoover

    " You know as well as I do, the majority of the complainers simply don't like the fact that marijuana exists."

    Having actually taken the time to to these neighbors throughout town, I can tell you with authority that you are 95 percent incorrect. The overwhelming majority, including me, are 215 supporters and wish for legalization.

    It fits your dumbed-down narrative to cast grow house opponents as prohibitionists. But unless you actually talk to people, you really have no way of knowing what they think.

    And in answer to my previous question, it appears impossible for you to simultaneously grasp the concepts that cannabis legalization is sensible and that industrial grow houses suck.

    " a constant flow of buyers isn't what people look for in a grow house" Uh-huh. What about the trimmers? What about the equipment and product being humped in and out? Your assertions are not grounded in any experiential reality. We live with this day in and day out.

    #63380
  37. Kevin Hoover

    " You know as well as I do, the majority of the complainers simply don't like the fact that marijuana exists."

    Having actually taken the time to to these neighbors throughout town, I can tell you with authority that you are 95 percent incorrect. The overwhelming majority, including me, are 215 supporters and wish for legalization.

    It fits your dumbed-down narrative to cast grow house opponents as prohibitionists. But unless you actually talk to people, you really have no way of knowing what they think.

    And in answer to my previous question, it appears impossible for you to simultaneously grasp the concepts that cannabis legalization is sensible and that industrial grow houses suck.

    " a constant flow of buyers isn't what people look for in a grow house" Uh-huh. What about the trimmers? What about the equipment and product being humped in and out? Your assertions are not grounded in any experiential reality. We live with this day in and day out.

    #65882
  38. Kevin Hoover

    " You know as well as I do, the majority of the complainers simply don't like the fact that marijuana exists."

    Having actually taken the time to to these neighbors throughout town, I can tell you with authority that you are 95 percent incorrect. The overwhelming majority, including me, are 215 supporters and wish for legalization.

    It fits your dumbed-down narrative to cast grow house opponents as prohibitionists. But unless you actually talk to people, you really have no way of knowing what they think.

    And in answer to my previous question, it appears impossible for you to simultaneously grasp the concepts that cannabis legalization is sensible and that industrial grow houses suck.

    " a constant flow of buyers isn't what people look for in a grow house" Uh-huh. What about the trimmers? What about the equipment and product being humped in and out? Your assertions are not grounded in any experiential reality. We live with this day in and day out.

    #66305
  39. Kevin Hoover

    " You know as well as I do, the majority of the complainers simply don't like the fact that marijuana exists."

    Having actually taken the time to to these neighbors throughout town, I can tell you with authority that you are 95 percent incorrect. The overwhelming majority, including me, are 215 supporters and wish for legalization.

    It fits your dumbed-down narrative to cast grow house opponents as prohibitionists. But unless you actually talk to people, you really have no way of knowing what they think.

    And in answer to my previous question, it appears impossible for you to simultaneously grasp the concepts that cannabis legalization is sensible and that industrial grow houses suck.

    " a constant flow of buyers isn't what people look for in a grow house" Uh-huh. What about the trimmers? What about the equipment and product being humped in and out? Your assertions are not grounded in any experiential reality. We live with this day in and day out.

    #66479

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